Tuesday, August 21, 2007

St Agnes is Considering Expanding its Latin Mass Offerings to Include the 1962 Mass of Pope John XXIII

Father John Ubel, pastor of St Agnes parish in St. Paul, posted the following in his "Pastor's Page" column this past Sunday:

I am appreciative of all who have spoken to me regarding the motu proprio of our Holy Father. With the
aid of our deacons and musicians, and with prayerful consideration, we are exploring our options, as well
as what would be entailed should we move in the direction of offering the Latin Mass in both its ordinary
and extraordinary forms. I will keep you posted


Terry Nelson said...

Well that is the ideal Church to celebrate in. It wouldn't hurt the collection plate either - you know - get some of the Augie trads back.

Cathy_of_Alex said...

Does that mean Terry will cross the river again?

swissmiss said...

I know a good handful of folks who went south to Hastings and a few to St. Augustine. I attend bible study at St. Augustine, but have never been to Mass there. Although St. Agnes has the Latin NO, we hardly ever attend that because it's too hard with the kids. Plenty of other brave families do attend that Mass, but we are fine with the well-said NO Masses they have, too!

Anonymous said...

Is it correct to assume that the 10:00am Latin NO would become the Latin 1962 Mass?

OT: I noticed the following in the linked bulletin:

"I am extremely excited about our school’s new leadership and direction..."

Is this significant (I know a few years back there were problems that led to some students/teachers/staff leaving)?

Terry Nelson said...

Cathy - I don't think I can go any place until the Diamond Lake Rd. bridge is finished - otherwise I can't get across 35W...

Unknown said...


With respect to Mass scheduling, nothing is safe to assume.

I think most pastors are going very slowly on this. While there probably is demand, nobody seems to be lining up at rectory doors demanding the 1962 Mass.

I suspect that no pastor wants to start with a schedule that he might have to cut some months later because of a lack of interest.

I would tend to think that pastors will start out with an occasional low Mass (for one thing, it will be easier for them to learn themselves) and offer that occasionally and see what the response will be.

Then, if the priests are available, the occasional Solemn High Mass on special occasions.

The best way to re-insert the 1962 Mass into our Catholic culture is to do it slowly over a period of time so many people can slowly become exposed to it.


With respect to St Agnes' school, I know very little. But they did have a hugely successful fund raising campaign last winter/spring in response to an urgent appeal.

So I am guessing that good things are happening there, as evidenced by Father Ubel's comment in his bulletin column.

Unknown said...

If Terry was really holy, he might be able to temporarily use bi-location to solve his bridge problem in the short term.

Or maybe he could, like my patron, St. Raymond of Penafort, cast his cloak upon Minnehaha Creek and sail down to the Mississippi/Minnesota confluence and then on down to maybe Battle Creek and sail up that and walk the remainder to St Agnes?

Cathy_of_Alex said...

Terry: Good grief! You can't go ANY where? Do I need to bring some food over? :-)

Mark: There is nothing untoward in the hiring of a new principal at the St. Agnes schools. The previous principal retired. A parishioner with several years of teaching experience is the new principal. I think they rooted the folks who did not want the school to be actually Catholic out of the faculty several years ago (I think it was 2000 or 2001?).

Anonymous said...

Of course, I'm just an out-of-towner and know nothing of which y'all speak concerning these parishes, so I can't comment one way or the other on this post.... I only wanted to say: cute pic you got there, Ray! You look just like the Beave! :-)

swissmiss said...

I thought that was the Beave!

Unknown said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Not Ray in Minnesota, but Ray in Woodbury. This is a reply to an associate.

I know a lot about your question. For several years, I have been a subscriber to the orthodox Catholic publication; the Wanderer. One of its weekly columns is 'What does the prayer really say' written by Fr. John Zuhlsdorf. Since the announcement of Motu Proprio every single week he writes a lengthy column on this subject. As a result of reading those I have learned there are two translations of the popes declaration. The Vatican's and the United States Conference of Catholics. Different in some areas, but not by a wide margin.

What the column points out is that many of the bishops are doing everything they can to disallow the Latin celebration. We haven't heard from Flynn, but I would guess he is opposed to it or will reluctenly approve of it approve it. Thank God that he is being replaced. Some bishops are testing priests that want to celebrate it, even to the extent that they have have a clear understanding of Latin and not just memorize the words. The pope sys that is not necessary. Most priests that celebrate Spanish masses do not understand all of the words, nor do the nation churches who worship in Hmong, Polish, Czech, German etc. Many bishops do not know Latin either. Other bishops such as the one in Erie PA says no priest can say the Latin Mass without his permission and if a priest makes the request he has to sit down with with him and furnish a good reason for his request. This is not allowed, but how many priests will challenge their bishop. One of the strictest bishops is in Orange, CA. You have to walk on water to receive his permission. This same bishop allows a celebration of Halloween mass, the day before All Saints day, and the priest dances and wears a costume celebrating the Holy Mass. Worse then St. Joan of Arc. You can see this on a video at Ken Fisher's website in CA. Go to www.crcoa.com and see for yourself. I go in quite often, if it's not .com it's .org Catholics sign petitions at that site to be presented to Rome in behalf of Fr. Altier against our archbishops hateful decision. They also have a petition against the priest in Irvine, CA who wears the costume at the altar. A lot of sick things going on in our Church.

A priest such as my pastor at St. Ambrose cannot refuse to celebrate the Latin Mass if it is requested by a stable group within or from out of his parish. According to the article it does not have to be a large group either. If a pastor or the Catholic Spirit does not publicize it the results will be what the bshops and some priests want. NO to individual and group requests. The articles state some priests avoid performing by one on one, NO's. Thats intimidation and it works.

I gotta go. What you see is what you get; I don't have time to proof read or spell check.